Forums - Who is a pro with Sagat(besides me) Show all 68 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Who is a pro with Sagat(besides me) (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2074) Posted by Goken on 09:27:2000 04:45 AM: Show yourselves. http://www.geocities.com/wrestlerat2/gohankame.gif "Formally Ken34" http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/ Posted by DeadlyRaveNeo on 09:27:2000 07:45 PM: I'm not. Posted by StrtFghtrMstr on 10:01:2000 12:16 AM: Right Here. Oh how the mighty have fallen... Posted by lancer on 10:01:2000 05:19 AM: Im showing myself. Posted by DarkVegeta on 10:01:2000 06:53 AM: beware the wrath of the grandmasters. http://server24.hypermart.net/dblackgoku/images/Vegeta/Vegeta35.jpg I am the prince of all Sayins once again. Posted by Goken on 10:01:2000 06:57 AM: Who are the grandmasters.You finally made up your mind DarkVegeta.Nice choice. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by DarkVegeta on 10:01:2000 07:40 AM: the four grandmasters from the original street fighter games. if im not mistaken(i havent heard anyone call them this for a while) its bison, sagat, vega, and akuma. and thanx again for the pic. http://server24.hypermart.net/dblackgoku/images/Vegeta/Vegeta35.jpg I am the prince of all Sayins once again. Posted by DeadlyRaveNeo on 10:01:2000 08:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by DarkVegeta: [B]the four grandmasters from the original street fighter games. if im not mistaken(i havent heard anyone call them this for a while) its bison, sagat, vega, and akuma. and thanx again for the pic. B] Are these the four bosses in SF2? Isn't it Balrog, Vega, Sagat and Bison? and not Akuma? Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:01:2000 10:24 PM: no one can stop my sagat. hey is THE anti ryu off choice for me to stand in my way is to feed your soul to the jaws of death, your are weak for not simply realying on your fists. Posted by Goken on 10:01:2000 10:33 PM: I bet you can't beat my V-ism sagat.(my 99-hit combo.) http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by Goken on 10:01:2000 10:35 PM: shadowcharlie you won't even lay a hand on me.(like what cell is trying to do to gohan in the picture under me.) http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by Goken on 10:01:2000 10:36 PM: But my favorite will always be Ken. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:02:2000 06:24 AM: i dont need some v-ism combo, i can kill u in 3 moves no one can mach me with sagat, sept maybe derek with shin to stand in my way is to feed your soul to the jaws of death, your are weak for not simply realying on your fists. Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:03:2000 01:57 AM: ^____^ too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by DarkVegeta on 10:03:2000 06:03 AM: thats what i was sayin, deadly rave, i didnt really remember. i guess i just wanted it to be akuma cus i hate balrog. and just if anyone was wonderin, im the previously mentioned derek. yeah i know its a gay name. anyway, i havent seen u play, goken, so i dont know if u r better than shadowcharlie(his names moses, well thats what i call him sometimes.) but your right, no one can match ken, especially that fuck ryu. http://server24.hypermart.net/dblackgoku/images/Vegeta/Vegeta35.jpg I am the prince of all Saiyins once again. Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:03:2000 06:43 AM: vegita, stop bawlah blockin us. j/k keep it real you ken nut^_____^ too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:06:2000 07:23 AM: nothing to say goken? too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by StrtFghtrMstr on 10:06:2000 07:53 AM: THE 99-hitcombo in WorldTour?[^_^]Well I love juggling w/Sagat and fake kicking and keep aways w/low/high Tigers http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Oh how the mighty have fallen... Posted by Goken on 10:07:2000 08:13 AM: Oh I have something to say.I was just training sagat's 21 hit v-ism combo.Just go close to your opponent and do the tiger fire ball over and over.Activate it with low punch and kick.I can't play that good with charlie. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by TS on 10:08:2000 12:39 AM: Sagat has two main VCs- The corner one, you mentioned, as well as a corner to corner one. Meaning that if Sagat has his back to a corner, with no way to reverse the situation, he can start a VC that will both get the opponent in the corner, and do a good amount of damage. Just thought I'd throw that in. Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:08:2000 01:47 AM: i still think that the best combo for sagat is a jumping hk, standing hk, xx into tiger raid too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by TS on 10:08:2000 07:58 AM: Well while it's great to have Alpha Counters around, I really prefer X or V Sagat to A. VCs charge faster than Super Combos, for one, and that's definitely a good thing. And I just like how strong X-Sagat. Looks more threatening. Plus, your combo would require you to land a jump-in with Sagat- and if your opponent is good, that won't be happening. http://www.geocities.com/tsdcs/mammoth.gif <GamePro> GamePro officially predicts the death of the Dreamcast by October 12, 2000 <GamePro> Wait, it's the 12th today? Um...21st then. <GamePro> When does the PS2 launch? And where's my beer? <Scary_Larry> Get me my meth!! Posted by Goken on 10:09:2000 12:06 AM: Good point. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:09:2000 02:54 AM: yes but you cant use his upper cut as much for offence in x and his knee has an imput i do not like plus no scar charge for flashy ryu fights if you know what i mean too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:10:2000 07:36 AM: c'mon goken dont wuss out on me too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:17:2000 07:14 AM: ok do wuss out then too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 10:17:2000 10:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: yes but you cant use his upper cut as much for offence in x and his knee has an imput i do not like plus no scar charge for flashy ryu fights if you know what i mean How come you can be as offensive with the uppercut in X? Going offensive with the uppercut is not very sound of a gameplan anyhow. More of a counter tool. I think The X TU looks cool anyhow.. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Actually, I think A is his worst -ism. X has the big damage, and nice invincible super.. compared to weaker A that has air blocking. Of course V is the best.. No scar taunt? When Ryu tries a DP just activate VC and blow him away with your own uppercut.. and combo for 70 percent damage.. then you taunt. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Posted by Nos99 on 10:17:2000 10:15 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: yes but you cant use his upper cut as much for offence in x and his knee has an imput i do not like plus no scar charge for flashy ryu fights if you know what i mean How come you can be as offensive with the uppercut in X? Going offensive with the uppercut is not very sound of a gameplan anyhow. More of a counter tool. I think The X TU looks cool anyhow.. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Actually, I think A is his worst -ism. X has the big damage, and nice invincible super.. compared to weaker A that has air blocking. Of course V is the best.. No scar taunt? When Ryu tries a DP just activate VC and blow him away with your own uppercut.. and combo for 70 percent damage.. then you taunt. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Posted by Geese Howard on 10:20:2000 11:55 AM: Sagat is real good in CvsS. So good that I hate him coz too many ppl use him to turtle!! Posted by Control member on 10:20:2000 08:11 PM: ***TO TRAGIC*** owner of GameCUMbos.com Listen up bi0tch this is the dealy yo, GameCUMbos is an alright site but needs improvement so I suggest that you do so cause as far as I'm concerned yo site is shit right now biotch so fix that shit up you cock s*cking,d*ck blQwing,an*l f*cking biotch, and do me a favor tell your mom it was good last night you ass f*ck P.S> I'll be back biotch "Bow before your Masta" Posted by Control member on 10:20:2000 08:12 PM: ***TO TRAGIC*** owner of GameCUMbos.com Listen up bi0tch this is the dealy yo, GameCUMbos is an alright site but needs improvement so I suggest that you do so cause as far as I'm concerned yo site is shit right now biotch so fix that shit up you cock s*cking,d*ck blQwing,an*l f*cking biotch, and do me a favor tell your mom it was good last night you ass f*ck P.S> I'll be back biotch "Bow before your Masta" Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:21:2000 08:09 AM: you only need to post something once you fag.^___^ when i say offence i mean in combos ok///? and a i like for his tiger raid and like i said scar charge too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Goken on 10:22:2000 06:38 AM: Sorry for not repling.This is not my computer so I barely get to come on.And for sagat I hate him in x-ism because the uppercut is not as powerful but his super is. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:22:2000 11:37 PM: preach on brothah too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 10:24:2000 12:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: you only need to post something once you fag.^___^ when i say offence i mean in combos ok///? and a i like for his tiger raid and like i said scar charge You calling me a fag? Ok, you can pick your A-ism, but I'll pick V-ism and when you attack I'll slam out a VC and take off 70% of your life. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Scar charge looks cool, but seriously it sucks. Waste of meter. V-ism can also cancel the low forward. Also has infinite.. etc. Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:25:2000 07:04 AM: there is a at range sagat if you did not know you fool youl get knocked out of your v in a sec http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/wink.gif too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 10:25:2000 10:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: there is a at range sagat if you did not know you fool youl get knocked out of your v in a sec http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/wink.gif ok.. please tell me this range. better yet, tell me why Sagat is activating VC at that range? http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif V-ism is better.. easily. any point you can bring up, V will beat it. The game should be called V-fighter. Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:26:2000 06:20 AM: you can play sagat at range so your "v style" just wont work like i said time in time again anyone with skill will knock your ass out of v anytime you try it http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/wink.gif too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 10:26:2000 08:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: you can play sagat at range so your "v style" just wont work like i said time in time again anyone with skill will knock your ass out of v anytime you try it http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/wink.gif then tell me what this range is? WTF would sagat be activating when he's risking a hit anyhow? Unless you're V-ism yourself, or have extremely fast reflexes to cancel frozen normals with dp (unless your character doesn't even have one) you can rarely ever stop a VC.. Let's say you jump... Sagat does a VC. Can you hit him? No. You lose. You attack.. Sagat does a VC. Can you hit him? Probably not.. unless you used a cancellable normal, have very good reflexes, and a high priority special. Otherwise, you lose. At least back up your claims.. Have you ever seen a VC before? VCs are very hard to hit. Even if I spark up a VC a half screen away (which is totally stupid, except in certain situations), i'm still safe from pretty much anything a X/A character can dish out.. unless they have a long range super that out-prioritizes the TU. Or, if they have a projectile super that I can't jump for some reason.... even so, they wasted their CRAPPY meter on a long range projectile which does crap damage, while I might still have meter and can build it up in no time at all anyhow. V-Sagat is easily the best Sagat. Posted by Xenogear on 10:26:2000 08:39 AM: what the fuck is wit u people and V? are all of u so fuckin pathetic that u cant even do a good combo witout a shadow trail? how sad. and Sagat is very good, but Fei long or Shin can kick his ass in a flash. http://www.crosswinds.net/~zenogears/images/id03.jpg ------------- Names are of no importance to me, but if you must know,....ID. Posted by Nos99 on 10:26:2000 09:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by Xenogear: what the fuck is wit u people and V? are all of u so fuckin pathetic that u cant even do a good combo witout a shadow trail? how sad. and Sagat is very good, but Fei long or Shin can kick his ass in a flash..[/i][/B] My god.. you guys must suck. I play V-ism because it's good. I'm talking about V-ism because it's good. I pretty much have to. Most good players will use V-ism, and the best way to fight V-ism is with V-ism. You guys say it stinks.. back up your shit talk and tell us how. He says Sagat's VCs are easy to hit.. why doesn't he say how? Because he probably knows that it's not true. Don't give me any of this combo crap either.. the ability to perform crazy has combos has little to do with winning. Even so, I can do practically any combo. I've landed j.fierce\/jab->strong->fierce->rh->strong->fierce->rh dash kick (dizzy)->jump up rh->strong->fierce->lvl3 kick super->jab->strong->fierce->rh->jab->strong->rh hurricane kick(dizzy)->j.fierce->jab->strong->fierce->rh->strong->fierce->lvl 1 punch super (dead 100%) in a match before.. am I cool now? No wait, I should've gotten more jabs and used kara-cancelled bushin chains right? But then the damage scaling would prevent the lvl 1 punch super from killing them and I'd have to do the bushin flip grab instead.. plus, this one is much easier. it's all about practicallity. You know what's sad.. ? the fact that you can't recognize that V-ism is good, usually the best. the fact that you whine about combo skill. the fact that you guys bitch on people and don't try to back it up with anything besides insults and shit talk.. The fact that you have to pick Shin Akuma. LOL.. that's sad. You don't brag about picking Shin akuma. "Look at me! I so bad that I have to use Shin akuma to win!" Posted by Fakefist on 10:27:2000 12:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Nos99: the fact that you can't recognize that V-ism is good, usually the best. This actually has nothing to do with the flames building here -just a qualifier to this statement here...certain character don't give you much on V, as opposed to A or X -for instance, X-Rolento gives you power and fast jumps, A-Rolento gives super flexibility (for the record I prefer A)... I haven't seen anything that V-ism gives Rose (if I'm missing something, please correct me and give me the secret sauce!) that her freakishly strong a-ism don't provide with a lot less work. But *most* characters do have benefits in V-ism... BTW, what's the 70% v-ism combo w/ sagat? I might use him a little more than I do on A3 if he has that kinda power. -Q. "In this journey your the journal, I'm the journalist/Am I eternal, or an eternalist?" -Talib Kweli Posted by TS on 10:27:2000 01:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Fakefist: This actually has nothing to do with the flames building here -just a qualifier to this statement here...certain character don't give you much on V, as opposed to A or X -for instance, X-Rolento gives you power and fast jumps, A-Rolento gives super flexibility (for the record I prefer A)... I haven't seen anything that V-ism gives Rose (if I'm missing something, please correct me and give me the secret sauce!) that her freakishly strong a-ism don't provide with a lot less work. But *most* characters do have benefits in V-ism... Yeah, can't argue with that... There are just some characters (Chun, Guy, most likely Ken, M. Bison, Balrog, etc) that are just better in X or A. I've actually heard/seen good things about V-Rolento (check the Rolento vs Sodom exhibition vids in the multimedia section, before they're pulled offline). But, seeing as how I don't play Rolento, I couldn't say if he's better in any particular ISM. X-ISM Rose is actually ranked highest, because it's possible to mash out of A-Rose's Lvl3 Aura Soul Throw. As for V-ISM Rose, I have an FAQ up at GameFAQs for her... Getting ready to send them the updated version (3.5) right now, though I have no clue when they'll actually put up the updated version. Rose has a few things in V-ISM, but she's pretty good all around IMO... Level 1 Aura Soul Throw, Aura Soul Sparks in A-ISM, big damage and CPS chain in X-ISM, and the ever present fear of a blowout in V-ISM, as well as the ability to control her normals (which is good). http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/game/11395.html http://www.geocities.com/tsdcs/aniROSE2.gif Posted by TS on 10:27:2000 01:18 AM: quote: Originally posted by TS: I've actually heard/seen good things about V-Rolento (check the Rolento vs Sodom exhibition vids in the multimedia section, before they're pulled offline). Meant to say Rolento vs Sodom vid, not vids. Singular, not plural. Anyway, it's in the SFA3 section, below the Zangeif vs Sakura matches, and it's labled "Liquid Metal vs. White Exhibition (Sodom vs. Rolento)." Posted by Nos99 on 10:27:2000 09:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by Fakefist: This actually has nothing to do with the flames building here -just a qualifier to this statement here...certain character don't give you much on V, as opposed to A or X -for instance, X-Rolento gives you power and fast jumps, A-Rolento gives super flexibility (for the record I prefer A)... I haven't seen anything that V-ism gives Rose (if I'm missing something, please correct me and give me the secret sauce!) that her freakishly strong a-ism don't provide with a lot less work. But *most* characters do have benefits in V-ism... I never said the others sucked.. But V-ism is usually their best -ism. About 70% or more of the cast is best in V-ism IMO. V-rose? eh, i dunno. She's got the strong into drill VC that does about 50%. I find it too hard to land a lot though. Plus I like being able to do jabs into super. I might pick it if i want to counter VC though sometimes. quote: BTW, what's the 70% v-ism combo w/ sagat? I might use him a little more than I do on A3 if he has that kinda power. I do strong+forward, jab TU, s.fierce into whiff short tigerknee, repeated s.fierce into whiff tigerknee.. when you reach the corner repeated s.fierce into whiff tiger shot. end with a whiff tiger shot and do a deep d.strong into fierce TU if you like. Or back+fierce or something to pop them up and then jump towards with strong and try for his infinite.. if they block the strong, try to TU them when they land. I like the VC2 because sometimes I start with a strong TU, and if they block it the usually get hit by my shadow.. if that block that pushout into FB and repeated knees behind your shadow's FB. if you start with strong TU it does a little less though.. This works against grounded opponents as well as anti-air. From afar you can even start with just the tigerknee, then go into the fierce into whiff knees part. Some people use VC3, jab TU, rh tigerknee, repeated fierce into whiff FB, etc.. (i think) whatever works. Just as long as it's mostly fierces. [This message has been edited by Nos99 (edited 10-26-2000).] Posted by Goken on 10:27:2000 04:44 PM: For The DICK(Xeongers).I Can do combos in x-ism or a-ism.I know many combos in a-ism with ken and ryu and dan.I know many xism combos with Shin akuma.I still think sagat is best with v-ism.Sagat doesn't really have any good air combos like shin akuma but sagat is still worth playing with in v-ism. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:28:2000 11:02 AM: i can see that i can not change your minds and frankly i dont give a fuck what sagat u play. and for the lost game u metioned earlier if vc is activated u must not have seen the tiger knee used in the right plase in the right time . i dot care what u say tekken is always much better:P too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 10:28:2000 11:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: i can see that i can not change your minds and frankly i dont give a fuck what sagat u play. i dot care what u say tekken is always much better More shit talk.. quote: and for the lost game u metioned earlier if vc is activated u must not have seen the tiger knee used in the right plase in the right time . ..and still haven't answered my question, or backed up your original statement. I think. That sentence or yours doesn't make any sense. I have seen the knee used well.. i'm the guy who said Sagat's VCs are good remember? please try reading your messages before you post them. [This message has been edited by Nos99 (edited 10-28-2000).] Posted by Goken on 10:29:2000 04:56 AM: He got you. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:29:2000 06:09 AM: the knee as a counter to vc not as a move to use in it. ok/ and what do u want me to back and how?? too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 10:29:2000 11:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: the knee as a counter to vc not as a move to use in it. ok/ and what do u want me to back and how?? You use the tiger knee as a counter to VC? If sagat sparks up a VC next to you, you knee in response? wouldn't you TU instead? I don't think the knee would be very good. I doubt it would stop a VC at all. you said that if you have any skills, countering a VC is easy. I just want you to tell me how. Even TU isn't reliable counter. The best counters I know, are high priority supers and specials. X-ism super would work, and TU can work too.. but from my experience, still nothing reliable. What is sagat activates just outside of your special range? What if he blows through a move? he can even instantly counter with TU during is own VC. Counter with specials and stuff instantly is also hard to do.. Not saying that it can't be done, but a super motion right after VC isn't easy. DP is more plausible. anyhow, it's always in V-isms favour anyhow. Even if you DP it can just whiff totally if the V-ism player can see it coming. if sagat can hit you, (it's in his favour imo) he does 70% damage, and his meter builds back WAY faster than an A-ism meter. If you just block you eat GC damage, and his meter is back in no time. V-ism rules. If your opponent is V, you can barely poke with shit anymore.. forget most supers outside of combo, or jumping, or trying to tick, or anything with the slightest amount of startup, or dragon punching them out of the air, or using FB pushouts, or throwing FBs from midscreen, etc. You can even just walk up to people, with your fingers over the VC buttons and activate when they try to poke you away, and if it works you get big rewards and get meter in no time to do it again.. even if you block you can still lose lots of life, get put into hard-to-block traps, get spd'ed, get GCed, etc. If you've found a way to easily stuff VCs please share it. I'd really like to know how. Posted by Goken on 10:29:2000 04:26 PM: I would probobaly agree. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:30:2000 03:05 AM: ok here i what i mean: v doesnt last forever. i f a person can just block your vc but thats the real trick isnt it? yes alpha counters are one of the safest bets.and v is nice but i still dont like v because of how it hampers your power without adding any deffence. thats all plus its not as vizualy stunning as a or x although it does have its good points to long combos easeee. well thats all. too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 10:30:2000 10:31 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: ok here i what i mean: v doesnt last forever. i f a person can just block your vc but thats the real trick isnt it? yes alpha counters are one of the safest bets.and v is nice but i still dont like v because of how it hampers your power without adding any deffence. thats all plus its not as vizualy stunning as a or x although it does have its good points to long combos easeee. well thats all. Well, VCs last a lot longer than supers. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif If you block, you're still not much better off.. sometimes you're worse off actually. The V-ism player can still do lots of damage if you block, and/or take off loads of guard crush meter (if not bust it completely). If you alpha counter, then you're left with a smaller guard meter that's usually flashing danger. Wicked! So he builds his meter back up in no time and you're screwed. you can even do something basic like VC1, d.fierce x2 with sagat and it does loads of GC damage. more than any super. What if they do a hard-to-block confusion VC? What if you block 40 fireballs in the corner? Just blocking won't get you anywhere.. especially against deadly corner VCs. The V-ism player is almost -wanting- you to try to block (V-Vega, V-Rolento, etc.), or really couldn't care less (Gief, Hawk, etc.) Even if you Alpha Counter, that still isn't anything great! Hopefully it will hit, (it might not against certain VCs and with certain ACs), and even if it does it will do CRAP damage plus take off a chunk of your guard meter so it's smaller for the next time your opponent VCs... which will be pretty soon afterward. Sometimes almost instantly afterward. I'm not saying that you don't AC.. if you have to, do it! Just don't expect any great rewards from it. But what if you're attacking? or in the air? or if he activates and falls through your anti-air? How do you block the VC then? you can't. Or what if you're X-ism where you take more damage, and more block damage and can't alpha counter? If i'm taking on V-akuma and he activates VC next to my A-ism character, chances are I'm going to try and hit him with a DP or something. I'd rather risk eating the VC than getting guard crushed and THEN eating the VC. Either that, or block then AC and pray I can rush him down (hah!) and avoid the next VC somehow (double hah!). But what if I didn't have meter for AC, nor a DP? BTW: blocking isn't an easy way to stuff VCs (it's not one at all).. and blocking then AC is a lousy way to stop V-ism characters. It can help (sometimes a lot!), but as an overall gameplan it's not very sound. V-ism doesn't hamper your power IMO. Your characters normal attacks might be a bit less damaging, but that's about it. V-ism is extremely powerful. They walk faster, you now have controllable normals (EXTREMELY good), and of course the ability to VC.. which will do more damage than supers ever will. How much does Sagat's lvl3 super do? 50%? His VC does about 70% plus is about 50 times easier to land. Plus he can do it more often.. They usually have the best specials/normals, they can do hard-to-block VCs, unstoppable SPD VCs, break a full guard meter and still do 40% VCs, drop through DP/etc VCs, damn.. even infinites. Sounds like a pretty powerful -ism to me. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif As for defense, are you talking about how V-characters have smaller guard meters? That doesn't matter.. they have VCs!! http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Defensively, VCs are great. You can stuff practically any attack with a VC. Any move with any bit of startup becomes VC bait.. they don't have to do motions, just slam the buttons. if you see a super start up, just start slamming those VC buttons and blast them with your high damage VC. VCs can blow through pretty much anything.. that's sounds like a good defensive tactic to me. The best way to counter a non-blowthrough point blank VC is to counter-VC IMO. it's much easier than countering with DP or super. You should try learning V-ism.. someone like V-Sak, V-Akuma, V-Charlie, or even V-Feilong (you like him right?). Try to learn yourself why everyone says it's so damn good. If anything you'll become a better player and whup your friend's lesser X/A characters. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif [This message has been edited by Nos99 (edited 10-29-2000).] Posted by davekof on 10:30:2000 08:00 PM: Duhh... My name is Shadow Charlie and... uhhh.. I tried to block Zangiefs VC but he grabbed me somehow...then he grabbed me when I was getting up...but I was blocking..WTF?? Who cares man...uh..whatever, that shit's cheap! Whatever... I'm just gonna get off on some X-ism supers.... YAHHH!!!!...look man.. the screen turned red!!! woah!!! Ignorance will be your downfall The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by davekof on 10:30:2000 08:08 PM: You guys need to take some iniciative, and come up with your own shit, like my V-Gen. Why don't you master a character and then talk shit. it's not the character, it's the mind of the opponent. And in keeping with the flow of this forum... I heard Daigo won a whole tournament with A-Ryu, and only used V-Ryu once...that just goes to show you. Somebody besides me make this game more interesting and invent their owm top tier player. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/frown.gif The Saikyou-ryuu master Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:31:2000 02:45 AM: you dont know me davekof you only think u do. too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Goken on 10:31:2000 05:34 AM: Well V-ism May not have any defense because that is the piont.You have to find the right time to do a all out offense attack and once you do it the combo must be long enough to drain your v-ism gauge. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by shadowcharlie on 10:31:2000 07:03 AM: how do u play a v sagat do u just keep them on the ground because they can always tech roll away or flip out of an uppercut or knees too easy http://www.geocities.com/jjomega_2007/jps/jj_shadow.jpg Posted by Nos99 on 11:01:2000 12:21 AM: quote: Originally posted by shadowcharlie: how do u play a v sagat do u just keep them on the ground because they can always tech roll away or flip out of an uppercut or knees Connect with his VCs. Duh. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif If they're tech rolling, you should punish them hard. It's all about connecting with the VC though. If they jump, VC. If they FB, VC. If you jump towards, VC through their anti-air and nail them when you land. If you see an attack, VC. If you can predict an attack, VC. Try figuring out some corner confusion VCs to use on your friends.. experiment to see what VCs work best for you. Then you can learn his infinite.. heh. Basic stuff.. low fierce is ok poke (GC). d.strong and jab/shorts are ok. s.short has lots of range (stuff a FB from half screen http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif), d.forward into special. jump straight up rh from inside sweep range. j.short/forward are good crossups. Most Sagat's throw too many FBs. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif don't do that. I find that trying to FB trap with Sagat is.. well. Impossible. And try learning the ducking TU. Just mainly concentrate on landing your VC. One your VC hits, you should continue hitting until your meter runs dry. They CAN'T flip out of VCs. It's all one big combo. Posted by TS on 11:01:2000 12:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Nos99: If i'm taking on V-akuma and he activates VC next to my A-ism character, chances are I'm going to try and hit him with a DP or something. I'd rather risk eating the VC than getting guard crushed and THEN eating the VC. Either that, or block then AC and pray I can rush him down (hah!) and avoid the next VC somehow (double hah!). But what if I didn't have meter for AC, nor a DP? BTW: blocking isn't an easy way to stuff VCs (it's not one at all).. and blocking then AC is a lousy way to stop V-ism characters. It can help (sometimes a lot!), but as an overall gameplan it's not very sound. V-Akuma doesn't even have to be close to you to land a VC. He could just activate VC1 from almost a full screen away, toss some fireballs, do that overhead flip thing, and GRAB you with it whether you block or not. From there it's just stand FP, fireball, overhead, into whatever VC he wants to do to you. Posted by Nos99 on 11:01:2000 09:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by TS: V-Akuma doesn't even have to be close to you to land a VC. He could just activate VC1 from almost a full screen away, toss some fireballs, do that overhead flip thing, and GRAB you with it whether you block or not. From there it's just stand FP, fireball, overhead, into whatever VC he wants to do to you. yeah.. he's an asshole. I think V-Akuma makes the game great, but at the same time is a sorta like a cable of SFA3... kinda. His VC is so adaptable and covers up very well.. Definitely best VC character in the game IMO. One thing I like is when you step out of sweep, they whiff it, you sweep back then activate VC and lay down some meaty red FBs into flip.. Posted by Goken on 11:01:2000 04:47 PM: I'm with you.If you activate his LP VC He does 4 fire balls instead of two.This is my combo:4 fire balls,air kick,A light low kick,a light low punch and his hurricane kick over and over till it is drained out. Or:Hurricane kick and dragon punch back to back over and over. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by Nos99 on 11:01:2000 09:47 PM: quote: Originally posted by Goken: I'm with you.If you activate his LP VC He does 4 fire balls instead of two.This is my combo:4 fire balls,air kick,A light low kick,a light low punch and his hurricane kick over and over till it is drained out. Or:Hurricane kick and dragon punch back to back over and over Fierce red FB, demon flip, d.short(or forward) repeat is they way I do it.. If I start it close, I'll start with a d.forwad or d.short.. This is if they block. When you reach the corner lay down a load of red FBs, or hopkick->red FBs. when their guard breaks go into corner VC. If they get hit during it, (happens quite a bit because of it's "phantom hit"), switch to normal FBs, and leave out the low kick.. When you get to corner do his corner VC. It's just so easy for him to keep the VC going no matter what. BTW: hurricane kicks aren't too good in VC. They can always PP flip if you do a hurricane kick.. you return to neutral state afterwards. Not to say that it's useless... it can be good breakfall bait, but Akuma shouldn't have to let them flip IMO. He can pretty much ALWAYS keep his VC nice and tight so it will combo. Posted by Goken on 11:04:2000 11:36 AM: Man.Where do you guys come up with these stuff. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by Nos99 on 11:04:2000 08:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by Goken: Man.Where do you guys come up with these stuff. What stuff? Just look for info, ask questions, and practice.. if you learn something, try expanding on it to make it better. See what works best on your competition, and always be thinking of new ways to setup your opponent. Doesn't hurt to get a few combo/tourney videos and see how the pros play either. http://www.shoryuken.com/ubb/smile.gif Posted by Goken on 11:04:2000 11:40 PM: Well I don't have the money for those things right now.I getting ready to get My own computer. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage Posted by Goken on 11:04:2000 11:43 PM: And plus.StreetFighter 3 Third Strike is taking up all my SFA3 time.I might Have to start getting back into the mood of playing SFA3 just incase someone want's to battle. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/Anime/gohan_fighting.gif "Formally Ken34" Gokens Homepage All times are GMT. The time now is 04:48 PM. 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